Update: Now with updated 2008 Hale Lane, Payne & Fears, Snell & Wilmer (for 1st yrs and after), KKBRF, Alverson Taylor, Hutchinson & Steffen, Boies Schiller, DLA Piper, Downey Brand, Duane Morris, McCormick Barstow numbers. 2008 salary and billable number updates noted with a *. [disclaimer: these numbers are the most recent available from tips and websites]
[If you don't know about the magic number, learn more here.]
So, here, ranked in order by highest (or best) magical number are the Vegas firms (did I miss something or someone, let me know at nevadalegal@gmail.com):
Name $ per billable (Salary/Min Billable)
Watt, Tieder 73 ($145,000/2000 billables)
DLA Piper 72.5 ($145,000/2000 billables)
Duane Morris 69 ($135,000/1950 billables)
Ballard Spahr 68 ($133,000/1950 billables)
Fox Rothschild 68 ($125,000/1850 billables)*
Snell & Wilmer [1] 67 ($120,000/1800 billables)* -- [only 1800 billables for 1st yr]
Fennemore Craig 65 ($125,000/1925 billables)
Payne & Fears 64 ($125,000/1950 billables)*
Lewis & Roca 63 ($120,000/1900 billables)*
Hale Lane 63 ($120,000/1900 billables)* -- [incl. 100 required pro bono hrs--67 if excl. pro bono]
Lionel Sawyer 61 ($110,000/1800 billables)
Snell & Wilmer [2] 60 ($120,000/2000 billables)* -- [2000 billables after 1st yr]
[If you don't know about the magic number, learn more here.]
So, here, ranked in order by highest (or best) magical number are the Vegas firms (did I miss something or someone, let me know at nevadalegal@gmail.com):
Name $ per billable (Salary/Min Billable)
Watt, Tieder 73 ($145,000/2000 billables)
DLA Piper 72.5 ($145,000/2000 billables)
Duane Morris 69 ($135,000/1950 billables)
Ballard Spahr 68 ($133,000/1950 billables)
Fox Rothschild 68 ($125,000/1850 billables)*
Snell & Wilmer [1] 67 ($120,000/1800 billables)* -- [only 1800 billables for 1st yr]
Fennemore Craig 65 ($125,000/1925 billables)
Payne & Fears 64 ($125,000/1950 billables)*
Lewis & Roca 63 ($120,000/1900 billables)*
Hale Lane 63 ($120,000/1900 billables)* -- [incl. 100 required pro bono hrs--67 if excl. pro bono]
Lionel Sawyer 61 ($110,000/1800 billables)
Snell & Wilmer [2] 60 ($120,000/2000 billables)* -- [2000 billables after 1st yr]
Greenberg Traurig 59 ($112,000/1900 billables)*
Jennings, Strouss 58 ($110,000/1900 billables)
Bullivant Hauser 57 ($105,000/1850 billables)*
Downey Brand 57 ($100,000/1750 billables)
Brownstein Hyatt 56 ($110,000/1950 billables)
Jones Vargas 55 ($102,000/1850 billables)*
Fisher & Phillips 54 ($100,000/1850 billables)
McDonald Carano Wilson 54 ($100,000/1850 billables)
Santoro, Driggs 53 ($95,000/1800 billables)*
Gordon & Silver 53 ($95,000/1800 billables)
Kummer Kaempfer 53 ($100,000/1900 billables)*
Morris Pickering 51 ($95,000/1850 billables)
Marquis & Aurbach 50 ($100,000/2000 billables)
McCormick Barstow 46 ($80,000/1750)
Hutchison & Steffen 45 ($86,000/1900 billables)
Lewis Brisbois 43 ($84,000/1950 billables)
Alverson, Taylor 43 ($78,800/1840 billables)*
Thorndal, Armstrong 31 ($68,000/2160 billables)
Other--not enough info for magic number (any tips would be appreciated so we can clear this up)
Jennings, Strouss 58 ($110,000/1900 billables)
Bullivant Hauser 57 ($105,000/1850 billables)*
Downey Brand 57 ($100,000/1750 billables)
Brownstein Hyatt 56 ($110,000/1950 billables)
Jones Vargas 55 ($102,000/1850 billables)*
Fisher & Phillips 54 ($100,000/1850 billables)
McDonald Carano Wilson 54 ($100,000/1850 billables)
Santoro, Driggs 53 ($95,000/1800 billables)*
Gordon & Silver 53 ($95,000/1800 billables)
Kummer Kaempfer 53 ($100,000/1900 billables)*
Morris Pickering 51 ($95,000/1850 billables)
Marquis & Aurbach 50 ($100,000/2000 billables)
McCormick Barstow 46 ($80,000/1750)
Hutchison & Steffen 45 ($86,000/1900 billables)
Lewis Brisbois 43 ($84,000/1950 billables)
Alverson, Taylor 43 ($78,800/1840 billables)*
Thorndal, Armstrong 31 ($68,000/2160 billables)
Other--not enough info for magic number (any tips would be appreciated so we can clear this up)
I think it would be helpful to show how many attorneys are in the office. Does it really matter that firm X pays $200K/yr for 1,000 billables when they don't hire entry-level associates or only have 5 attorneys in the office?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The magic number is not the be all-end all of what firm to choose (or whether to choose a firm). It's merely a starting point.
ReplyDeleteI will work on getting a list of attorneys in the Vegas office up in the future.
You've AGAIN left out Greenberg Traurig and AGAIN misstated Holland & Hart's true billable requirement (it's 1950, not 1800). Also, several of the firms listed have only toehold offices with <10 attorneys in LV, whereas other national powerhouse firms with similarly small Vegas offices have been omitted (Boies Schiller for example). Either make a comprehensive (or useful) list or don't bother.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I did leave off Greenberg Taurig since I haven't been able to find their minimum billables. They are listed at $112,000 to start. Does anyone know the billable requirement?
ReplyDeleteAs for H&H, they have listed their minimum billables as 1800 with NALP Directory. If you're saying they are lying, that's discussion-worthy. Otherwise, I'll take your "constructive" criticism under advisement.
NALP does not list a minimum billable for Jolley Urga. It only says that the average annual billables are 1850 and minimum billables are case-by-case.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the feedback. I've made changes to the list to make it more accurate. I also added firms where I only know the salary or only know the billables.
ReplyDeleteNot magic number material, but hopefully helpful.
Word is that Alverson pays, to a S.A. who is extended an offer, bar admission and review expenses; $5k in July; starts new 2008 attorneys @$78k (salary for a few months and then by the hour, but w/increase of $6k every 6/mos); and requires 1840 hours. This seems quite respectable for a medium size firm that does not have offices outside of Nevada, no?
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get 1840 required from? Alverson is well known to require 2000 billable hours. They may have juggled the numbers with their new "attorneys as hourly employees" system, but they still require 2000 billables a year.
ReplyDeleteI think, 1840 hrs= 2000 hrs w/160 hrs of the 2000 hrs as paid vacation/holiday.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that H&H does have a 1950 billable req, but 150 of those can be 'pro bono.' Not sure how that shakes out in practice, but they do enjoy an excellent 'anti-sweatshop' rep.
ReplyDeleteThoughts on April 14, 2008 8:50 PM post about Alverson Taylor:
ReplyDeleteI have made the changes to the 2008 salary: now set at $78,000.
But I'm not sure what to do about the billables. Should they be lowered to the 1840 billables that our tipper suggests?
I'm inclined to say yes.
Lewis & Roca now has 75
ReplyDeleteNevada attorneys FYI.
It would be helpful to know what the pay raises are each year too. thanks for providing this info though, its really helpful for someone considering the Vegas market.
ReplyDeleteagreed about the pay raises; I think a common problem amongst the big firms is that they start high and spread low. In other words, they may start you at 120k as a first year, but the third year's are only making 125. lame.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree. The magic number is not the be all, end all, but I argue it is the best single measurement of law firm hiring.
ReplyDeleteHowever, all of these other issues should be considered as well (raises, bonuses, matching 401k, health/vision/dental insurance. partnership track, office camaraderie, office size, training, and on and on and on.
Many of things are taken into account by prospective employees in and out of the law, but I find that for a good measurement of your salary compared to workload, the magic number is the answer.
I like the magic number. I just can't find any info on pay raises for Vegas firms anywhere.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.alreadybored.com/markets/NV/firms
ReplyDeleteDuane Morris has TWO associates! Lionel and Lewis better watch out with their inferior magic numbers!
ReplyDeleteSomeone I know works at Greenberg Traurig in the Vegas office and said the billing requirement was 1850 hrs. In 2006, NALP had them at 1900 based on this: http://extranet.law.unlv.edu/pdf/BillableHoursHandout.pdf
ReplyDeleteOMG Fox Rothchild raised! All three associates must be STOKED!!!
ReplyDeleteBoies Schiller only lists four attorneys in the Vegas office, and all are relatively senior attorneys not any actual associates. In fact, their 'youngest' attorney listed was admitted to NV in 1989.
ReplyDeleteWatt Tieder only has four attorneys, most recently a 2007 admittee from out of state.
DLA Piper has ONE attorney listed here, admitted in 1991.
Duane Morris only has two or three associates (two on their website, three on NVBar site), they're all from out of state (California) and the two youngest were admitted in 2005.
So truly, the first in line is Ballard Spahr. They have what looks like four Boyd/UNLV grads, two other associates from out of state, and five partners totaling 11 attorneys listed in the Vegas office.
I don't think that firms who don't hire first year associates, or firms that don't have a real Vegas office (with at least 5 or more attorneys, if not 10 or more) should be considered here since they're not truly going to be hiring into the Vegas office.
Now, I might be biased towards Vegas as opposed to Nevada as a whole, so my numbers are only based on Vegas offices not Reno, Gardnerville/Minden, or even Pahrump offices, if such exists.
I agree that it's troublesome that some firms on the list don't hire first years. However, the list is intended to encompass any and all firms in town that we can get salary/billables info on.
ReplyDeleteIf someone knows how much the 4 ft 10" Heavy Hitter pays his attorneys when they start, we'll list that too. So in the interest of fairness, we'll keep trying to track down info for the smaller Vegas firms that do hire first years, but we'll also be leaving up the Mega-national firms that don't hire first years in Vegas.
Fox Rothschild does not start first year associates at $125k in Las Vegas. It is only $115k.
ReplyDelete