I was planning to do a fun and fluffy Sidebar this week since we got to fire judges in the land of make believe last week. But, as I have talked to friends and colleagues, I've noticed a theme... A theme of discontent. Often from unexpected sources. From associates to partners. Big and small firms. All areas of practice.
Sure, some days just suck. Perhaps you've dealt with a lying liar who lies all day and you wish that it was within the rules of professional conduct to add a Truth-Seeking Surcharge to the bill. Maybe things didn't go your way in Court. Or opposing counsel is simply making life hell.
But then there are streaks with day after day after day and you enter a sort of legal malaise.
This week's sidebar is a simple question: Do you like your job? Or, to make it more broad, do you like being a lawyer?
Tell us why or why not. If you are bold, tell us what type of law you practice and if you work at a big or small firm.
And, since there are many law students reading this blog, why do you want to become a lawyer?
Next week, we'll get back to a warm fuzzy. This topic has come up too many times recently and I've heard a lot of interesting comments from people I know. So, please, tell us your story.
Civil litigation. Big firm with various offices.
ReplyDeleteI hate my job. I am 95% certain that I hate being a lawyer. But right now, I'm thankful to have a job because the economy is awful and I don't know what else I would do.
My friends and I had this conversation over lunch last week. Five lawyers. Five people who would be doing something else if they could.
Not to say that I wouldn't hate something else.
Meh. What else am I going to do with my overpriced law school education? Gotta pay back the loans somehow.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started law school, I thought it would be about changing the world.
ReplyDeleteThen I decided it was about the money. It's still about the money. I like my paycheck. A lot. The other stuff has good days and bad days. Usually, I'm okay with what I do. I think everyone has days where they hate it.
(big firm)
Civil litigation/bankruptcy at a small firm. Although the hours are great (billables are only 1750), I still don't like the nature of the work. Every time I get a call from a client, it makes my skin crawl. I just don't like negotiating on behalf of clients, nor do I like dealing with ungrateful, annoying clients who pester you to death and are never satisfied with what outcome you get for them. Nor do they like it when you tell them the truth. Ugh. I also detest going to court - it's never-racking every single time I go before a judge.
ReplyDeleteI find it very telling that every poster here - and most of my attorney friends - hates what their doing. We have to try to find SOMETHING we like. I mean, is making decent money worth the unhappiness? Oh yeah, I don't even have that: just making slightly more than I was making as an assistant.
"they're" not "their."
ReplyDeleteIt's great to see that some people still thought about "changing the world" in law school. Go get 'em cowboy.
ReplyDeleteI hate my job. I hate my assistant more. I hate going to court because so many of the judges suck and it doesn't matter if the law is on your side. I don't think I even want to be a partner. OOOOH, more stress. No thanks.
ReplyDelete(Vegas branch of a Mid-size firm)
ReplyDeleteI actually love what I'm doing - the work is challenging and interesting, and litigating cases where the defendants are in the industry within which I worked prior to law school has been rather exciting. The 10-11 hour days aren't horrible and I rarely work weekends.
I would be interested in knowing what the unhappy attorneys did before law school, and specifically if law is their first career or their 2nd career.
I'm inclined to believe that those who choose law as their 2nd career are probably happier than the high school->undergrad->law school 23-24 yr old 1st career lawyers because we know what it was like before law school.
I can't help but wonder if the response to this survey is skewed towards unhappy lawyers because those who enjoy their jobs are too busy to comment.
ReplyDeleteMy job w/ a small firm is o.k.; I'd rather be doing something else though.
Humm, marching to the tune of a different drummer here. Yes, I like my job, I enjoy my choice of profession. Some days suck, but most days are enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI've done it all, big international firm, worked in small office with one other attorney, worked in mid-sized firm, now I'm at a small firm (less than 10 attorneys) and I have to say I love my job.
Certainly, I hate parts - dealing with crappy opposing counsel, dealing with ill equipped judges, dealing with annoying clients. And there are times when it all begins to wear on you.
The biggest complaint I have is the feeling that I HAVE to make a bunch of $$$ just so I can pay back my law school loans. I actually think I would enjoy the job even more if I didn't have that burden.
After working in a really $hitty job environment, working in marginal job environments, and now working in an awesome job environment, I do have to say office climate is critical to looking forward to going to work every day.
I hate work - not necessarily my job (big Vegas firm).
ReplyDeleteThe problem I've found with "changing the world" is that we are just mercenaries - hired guns to argue for our clients. And I don't think I would feel better about my position if I was in the office of the DA's, PD's, AG's or any other government or NPO group - again, you're just a hired gun.
I've had cases against pro bono/ Clark County Legal Project (whatever it's called) where the client was dead wrong - so I don't think that legal aid would be a great job either (if I didn't care about money - which I do). At the end of the day, I feel fortunate to make a decent wage and enjoy my co-workers and bosses.
Since I have to work at all, I think I made a decent career choice for myself. I would like to be in-house at a company I believe in (i.e. not a casino) but until that happens, I'll keep trying to bill at least 7.6 hours a day.
I can pretty much echo what Anonymous at 7:47 AM said, although I work at a mid-size insurance defense firm.
ReplyDeleteI hate what I do. I'm fairly certain that 90% of my problems would be solved if I didn't have to deal with billable hours.
But like others have said, I don't know what I would do if I decided not to be a lawyer. Any job I could get outside of the legal field would pay about 30-50% less and I wouldn't be able to afford my student loan payment. So I feel trapped in this career that I can't see myself in 20 years from now.
I'm always telling my wife I should have become a dentist.
Civil Ligiation - Plaintiff work; Mid size firm
ReplyDeleteI have been in law most of my life. I was a runner, legal secretary then paralegal before going to Law School. When they opened Boyd, I thought, that's all I know. I think in general I do like my job. I am working for a great firm, that is laid back and pays well. They don't try to cheat their employees (make the assisatants work 80 hours on salary, with no overtime). I have some great clients that really appreciate what you do, and of course the crappy ones. I generally dislike talking to clients, Depos bore me to death and Court is very stressful at times. However, it's all the part of the job. I'm sure there would be things I would hate in other professions too.
COurse I'm in trial prep hell, I can't remember the last day I didn't work at least a couple hours, and usually on the verge of a nervous breakdown so I'm surprised this came out so positive.
8:42 is dead on. I'm a 2nd career lawyer and wonder why I waited so long to start. Love appearing in court; love the advocacy; hate the loan payments, but the paycheck helps with that.
ReplyDeleteI'm at a small firm that, thankfully, chose NOT to get into that loan-mod "save-my-house" crap.
Overall, I'm in a good spot.
Civil lit/"big" Vegas firm.
ReplyDeleteI like the paycheck and knowing that I'm better off than most people, and work at a firm that's perhaps better than most other firms in town. There's a certain sense of satisfaction, knowing that I am doing something productive with my life. And there is a certain sense of pride when I answer the question, "what do you do?"
Beyond that, I don't really enjoy being a lawyer. I have no interest in the work. I might like criminal law better, but I suspect that's only because I've never practiced criminal law.
I've been practicing for close to 30 years, so I suppose I really don't know anything else. Some days I hate my job, some days I love it. But, that's life. I'm not independently wealthy and can't afford to move to some mountain town and play golf all the time (plus, I'd get bored)and I find most of the people I deal with interesting. The judges are human, some are dumb (esp. in Clark Co. - I've practiced out of state too), the clients are both reasonable and unreasonable. But, part of our job is to help these people get to the right place.
ReplyDeleteOn balance, I like it. If I were 22 again and starting out maybe I'd do something different, maybe not.
I understand the younger lawyers' disillusionment. Maybe I knew what to expect (I'm a second generation lawyer)
I enjoy my job. I'm at a small firm that gives me lots of autonomy.
ReplyDeleteCoincidentally, law is also my third career. After two careers where the money I made came by lots of sweat and hard work (and occasionally some blood), I have no complaints about a career wherein I sit in a comfortable chair in an air-conditioned office all day.
I can also look forward to practicing law (and making money) well into my golden years, whereas my prior, labor intensive careers tended to involve a much earlier retirement (not that they included a retirement plan).
PD in a specialty unit. Love my job, the issues, the courtroom exposure and the benefits. Pay is okay, but not fantastic. I work with a great group of people and that helps with the tough times. Government nonsense drives me a little batty a couple of hours a month - the mandatory safety course on welding precautions was a bit much. My work is interesting and far more entertaining than sitting through another boring deposition, but I'll never be rich, but I don't really care. This is where I want to be.
ReplyDelete[Small Firm, Business Litigation] I love my job. My guess is that the vast majority of those who are complaining about their jobs wouldn't be happy doing just about anything else, unless they were a skydiving instructor or a professional athlete, which is entirely unrealistic.
ReplyDeleteBeing in my 20s, I think the problem with my generation is we were all told that we should find a career doing what we love. Unfortunately this utopian vision is entirely unrealistic.
Being a lawyer can really stink when opposing counsel is difficult or when you have annoying clients, but I find a strange satisfaction in the gamesmanship of law practice. It's a million times better than being a bean counter.
If you find yourself whining about law practice, just think about how you could be digging ditches or paving roads out in the Vegas heat. Instead, you get paid ridiculous sums of money to eat peanut M&Ms while drafting pleadings and doing research. Not bad.
I'm a 2L at Boyd going through the OCI process. I'm also considering the FBI, and after reading the above comments I'm considering it a bit more seriously, especially in light of the fact that FBI employees qualify for LRAP.
ReplyDeleteHopefully I won't hate my job...but seems like I might...
ReplyDeleteI want to be a lawyer for the money and the challenge. The law can be manipulated.
I also want to be a lawyer so my children will have an easier life than I did. Not worrying about how rent will be paid next month takes a lot of stress out of everyone's life.
I think court will be exciting and trial fun. I think the work leading up to trial will suck, but has to be done. I also think the first few years of being low man on the totem pole will be...less than satisfying...but paying off the loans will make up for that.
I doubt I will ever change the world, making an impression would be nice, just not realistic. Clients can be a pain in the ass. (Some were when I was a legal assistant and I doubt that will ever change.)
I like the idea of saying, "I'm a lawyer." I like the potential mobility.
(Agree with 9:20.) I like that it seems like a job I can live with doing for many years. No one wants to work, who wouldn't rather travel the world, but since I have to, I think I picked an easier job than say... construction worker.
I love practicing law. I HATE billable hours. I don't even think I would work less hours really if I didnt have to bill-I just want to be able to work as much as necessary to get the job done without feeling the constant cloud of my billable requirement looming overhead. That aside, I love my firm (LV firm, 40 atty's, give or take), have good clients for the most part, and especially enjoy time spent in court and depositions. Knowing that I like the law, but hate billables, I'm hoping to make a successful run for judge somewhere down the line.
ReplyDeleteIt all comes down to perspective...
ReplyDeleteOur economy is the worst its been in 70-80 years so at this point in time I'm grateful to have any job.
I work a mid-size civil defense firm and of course I'm not too fond of billable hours...but it beats EVERY other job I had before law school.
I hate that so many of the spoiled/lazy/rich kids I went to law school with complain non-stop about how much they hate their jobs. But have they ever really had to "work" for a living...in a restaurant or a retail store or any type of manual labor? I'll take my air-conditioned office over an outdoor job in the Las Vegas heat any day.
Suck it up...you have it good.
@ 10:58 AM
ReplyDeleteHope you will make a better judge some day than the rest of 'em.
I would rather dig ditches, pave roads, work in restaurant/retain or perform manual labor-any day.
ReplyDeleteTalk is cheap
ReplyDeletei'm looking to marry a sweet sugar momma, settle down, and star in the real househusbands of Clark County.
ReplyDeletenothing stops you from quitting...feel free to make room for those of us who will be greatful for the job.
ReplyDeleteWhere is Jordan Ross? Legally Unbound??? I want to hear their answers. (Yes, snarky public, I realize that Jordan is not a lawyer, but he works with us all damn day, so I imagine he has an opinion on this.)
ReplyDelete@12:50 - Try not to use greatful with prospective employers.
@12:50 (first entry)
ReplyDeleteHa Ha Ha
Good One.
Well by sheer coincidence, here I am. A lot of heart felt comments here and many that I hear pretty frequently. This is pretty good timing; next month I give my annual address at Boyd Law School, "The New Attorney In A Free Market or Welcome To The Shark Pool - What Your Law School Professors, The Career Office and Even Law Firms Won't Tell You". A few comments and thoughts come to mind.
ReplyDelete8:42 AM and 8:55 AM are probably right, that having some sort of prior professional career before law school, not just part time college work, does bring a different perspective to work as an attorney. The fact is that almost all jobs have as a great deal of their time devoted to work that's fairly mundane. Most professional and managerial jobs have, to one degree or another, a considerable amount of stress to them and the better they pay, in general the more stress you find. So some attorneys may not have a real life comparison with another professional career to really make a judgment about that. Other careers may not be any better folks.
I do sincerely wish that there was a better picture of the reality of working as an attorney made available to people before they started law school. That's a big part of what I do each autumn when I speak at Boyd. I also sincerely believe that in serious economic downturns, law schools should reduce the size of incoming law school classes.
New attorneys also need to be made better aware of how it's difficult to change career tracks within the law after they start practicing.
Several of you mentioned that despite it all, the hours, the stress, the boredom, the student loans, they have it better than most Americans do right now. I sincerely don't believe I could work 8 hours a day in a construction site in the desert heat. Most attorney are earning more per year than most Americans will ever earn annually in their entire lifetimes. With that thought I want to tell you a short story.
There is a recently retired couple in rural Clark County who asked for my help because they knew me to have a minor involvement in politics. They expected to live their retirement out in pretty much the same way their parents (the World War II generation) had done, not rich, but secure. They worked hard, they didn't complain, they did the best they could to raise their children, they paid their taxes, they saved their money, they volunteered in their community. The husband served in combat in Vietnam and the wife personally led the movement to get a small and simple community center built in their tiny and isolated desert hamlet. They truly believed they did everything right.
Well their children are all struggling with terrible substance abuse problems. The economy collapsed and left them with nothing to retire on but their social security. The VA won't help the husband with the pain he still he struggles with from his combat PTSD. They're trying to keep their granchildren form becomiong homeless and they've been served with a notice of foreclosure on their not particuarly expensive home.
And still they show up five days a week to volunteer in the community center.
Life could be worse kids. I know I'm complaining less. Best wishes to all.
How about a 30-something who finished law school, got up to 2 weeks before the Bar and just couldn't do it anymore. I'm not sure why -- I loved law school, but I am STILL tired from it, years later.
ReplyDeleteLaw school loans hanging over your head don't help anyone's situation. Feeling pigeon holed in to having to make $X/year just to pay off the loans will make any job less fun. Even when it's not in the legal field.
Love the blog and kudos to all of you fighting the good fight in the courtrooms of Clark Co.!
Sole Practitioner
ReplyDeleteI have hated the job ALOT more than I have loved it. After a couple years off (doing other things and making other money) I am back out of necessity, but find myself energized and enjoying building my practice again.
I have often said (hope this doesnt give me away) that if I were independently wealthy, I would just do free stuff for my friends and occasionally others that need it. I wouldnt be a "pro bono" or public interest lawyer, but I LOVE doing free stuff for my friends and being the hero.
Finally, if your winning, the jobs a lot better. I get the biggest rush out of being found "right". However, the greatest compliment I ever received was from Judge (now Justice) Mark Gibbons, on a motion I lost in 2001. He told me that my motion was very well written and researched, but that he was not ruling in my favor. Great stuff for a young litigator.
My point is, keep heart, suck it up (whether you stay or go), enjoy the little victories and make them last you through the tough times. Youve made it this far, and even if you leave and then find yourself without an income, you can always practice law.
Not a bad way to go.
Civil litigation. Plaintiffs' side. I love my job, love coming to work. My only complaint(s) is regarding attorneys who like to play dirty or play hide-the-ball. To me that corrupts a system that is well thought out, intricate and organized.
ReplyDelete3:56 pm back again. This is my 2nd career so I agree with those posters that when it is your 2nd career you tend to like it more
ReplyDelete@12:35
ReplyDeleteI agree, especially when you don't have a clue about the person making a statement-jackass.
Resorting to name-calling...there's ONE clue about the person making the statement,
ReplyDeleteIt's calling a spade a space, but I apologize if I hurt your feelings. Let me rephrase:
ReplyDeleteI agree, especially when you don't have a clue about the person making a statement.
A spade a spade? Ha...very defensive----clue #2.
ReplyDeleteGovernment - Criminal Prosecution
ReplyDeleteThis is my 2nd career, and I also agree with those above regarding those who go from undegrad direct to law school being miserable.
That being said, I love, Love, LOVE my job. I spent a bit of time in the civil world, and hated almost every minute of it.
I now have a cushy 9-5 (most days) with great benefits and a decent retirement plan to boot. I get to see something new every day, and didn't have to "climb the ladder" for 3 years before I was allowed to make a court appearance.
Yeah, I'll never be rich, but I will likely live long enough to enjoy being middle-class. Oh, and the new loan forgiveness programs make things much easier.
7:47 back again.
ReplyDeleteThis is my second career. In another life, I worked in marketing for a large bank. It was very analytical and different from what I do now. I wish I could find something that was a mix of the two.
I am very, very grateful that I have a job. I am trying to learn to focus on the positive and get away from the negative aspects. Some days are simply harder than others.
I am solo and it is now tolerable.
ReplyDeleteI was at a big firm and I can honestly say that that being the bottom in a Tijuana donkey show is preferable to working for those miserable old pricks. Before you ask, I am holding back...
I love being an attorney! I work for a great law firm and my bosses ie the partners are amazing! I am one of the few people who get to live their dream:)
ReplyDeleteI wake up every morning and I say thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I go to bed at night and I look up and whisper thank you. My parents are both blue collar workers who weren't lucky enough to be born when there existed something called student loans. Otherwise they both would have made fine attorneys. I wanted to be an attorney in the worst way. I got accepted to undergraduate school but I had no money to pay for it so I worked and took out student loans. I got accepted to law school but my schedule was all over the place so I really couldn't work so I borrowed lots of money. I graduated, passed the bar, got a job and I'm working at a great firm and I feel great paying my loans back. OMG I am an attorney and I am so lucky!
ReplyDelete** I hate my job when opposing counsel is obnoxious, but even more when I don't deliver for my client whose paid some serious attorneys' fees. I know we don't warrant results, but it still makes me feel guilty. I guess I haven't lost my soul yet (but I'm only a fourth year associate, so maybe the daily grind of dealing with social retards will chip away at it slowly).
ReplyDeleteI'm a partner in a large national firm. I love what I do and the people with whom I work, but get annoyed with the admin that takes away from actually practicing law. For the junior lawyers and law students, it is critical to find a place that is collegial, where people talk about cases and promote your development as a lawyer, not just a billing entity. I spent my junior years working under a shrew of a person, and I was miserable.
ReplyDelete@ 10:37
ReplyDeleteI'm right along with you. At the two legal jobs I've had during the summers after my 1L and 2L years, both employers talked extensively about how stressful and unfulfilling it was to be an attorney. [not really the type of thing you tell and soon to be attorney, but maybe they were trying to warn me] Now that I'm in my 3rd year, non-traditional JD occupations are looking very appealing. Plus I could practice law later if federal law enforcement doesn't work out.
Wow, this one is getting so many more comments than most posts do! It speaks volumes about our legal community. I'm sure most who have commented would not have without the option to remain anonymous. Reading them makes me more grateful than ever for being happy and fulfilled in the kind of work I do. For all attorneys reading this who are miserable in their careers but think they are hiding it well, I have news for you. Your staff knows.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I have trouble caring. I know that sounds awful, but if the case is especially dry and boring and I don't feel like I am really helping anyone but some big faceless corporation, I find it hard to care. I am thankful that I have a job with decent hours that pays well. I hate wearing a suit when it is 115 outside. (I know, that doesn't hold a candle to the woes of the construction workers, but I still hate it).
ReplyDeleteInsurance Defense. Mid-size firm. I love what I do but hate who I work for. I'm afraid to leave and end up someplace worse. I'm so unhappy it's turning me off law altogether.
ReplyDeleteI would prefer to be a pimp.
ReplyDeleteSince I am incredibly lazy and somewhat dim, my true fate is government work. But at least I can loudly brag at cocktail parties that I serve the "public interest" while secretly hating the private attorneys who make real money serving the real needs of real clients. Damn it.
9:17 AM -
ReplyDeleteSorry that you work for ATMS - condolences from everyone who reads WWL.
Dunno about lawyerin', but I am support staff and have to say that I love working FOR lawyers(mid-sized defense/transactional).
ReplyDeleteThat said, 9.23.09@12:50, I am *down* with the house-husband plan....I married a lawyer (9.23.09@8:47, I think, in fact). If the money does roll in I'll watch for the casting call.
Drop the kids off at school, 9 holes, lunch, pick kids up, hang out at soccer practice with all the lonely young moms who's husbands work 90+. Bliss.
I love my job when I see a good waste of a telephone number like this one...
ReplyDeletehttp://thedefenders.net/
Looks like the pink building must be killing ticket busters??
LOL