Tuesday, November 3, 2009

Who Do You Believe?

By now you've heard about local attorney Raymond James Duensing, the man who was shot by police last week after fleeing on foot from a traffic stop. Here's what police say went down according to the LVRJ:
Police said the officer fired his weapon after Duensing was asked to get out of his Pontiac rental car because a record’s check indicated he had a warrant for his arrest. Police said Duensing then fled and was unsuccessfully Tased and shot after he reached toward his front right pocket for a .45-caliber handgun. Police also said Duensing reached for a large folding knife.
Apparently, not Everybody Loves Raymond. [Rimshot!] However, Ray (who goes by 'Jim') told a different story in his comment to a post published by the Independent Political Report. Here's how it really went down, According to Jim [ok, we'll stop]:
I was pulled over for driving straight through an intersection in a right turn only lane. I did signal for my lane changes to the left.

After exiting the vehicle at the officer’s request, I was standing with my back to the vehicle. The car’s open door was to my right. My hands were raised above my head. I was calmly speaking to the cop attempting to talk my way out of being taken to jail over an unpaid High Occupancy Vehicle ticket.

With my hands raised above my head, the cop shot me with a taser in the chest. As I have had heart problems since my premature birth, I believe a Taser to be a lethal weapon. Several people without heart conditions have been killed by this weapon.

When the taser began electrocuting me, instinct took over. I have been shocked by standard 120 volt electricity, which is what is used in your home. That was bad enough. Metro’s tasers contain “50,000 volts of pain compliance” according to one of the cops at the family law court who was operating the checkpoint.

Let me tell you, it is quite painful.

I immediately turned to my left and began moving away from the source of the electrocution. By the time I got to the back of the vehicle, I had reached up with both hands, grabbed the electrodes, and pulled them away from my chest. The juice then flowed through my arms - not my heart. As I lay here in my hospital bed, I firmly believe this instinct saved my life.

I continued running away from the taser. I heard the cop fire it again, but did not feel an additional shock.

I was running down the sidewalk with empty hands. I heard three pops from behind me. At first, I thought it was another taser shot. Then, I saw my left arm dangling.

I was taken down by a second officer - who was nearby conducting a separate unrelated traffic stop. He had me lying facedown on my broken arm. It was at this point that he found my licensed and registered pistol in my right cargo pants pocket and my Emerson folding knife in my right front pocket.

Let me reiterate. I am a firearms instructor at the world’s largest firearms training facility. I always carry a gun and at least one knife. I NEVER pulled either of these items out of my pockets.

The shooter was on my right side and from his perspective had to have been able to see that my right hand was indeed empty. The officer that I was running toward never reached for any weapon.
We've never been tased, but it seems like some super-human strength would be in order to reach down and pull out the probes. Then again, it does seem a bit excessive to start firing at a fleeing suspect after a routine traffic stop.

So, who do you guys believe? Is it counsel-hunting season for Metro, or did Jim do something that screamed Just Shoot Me? [last one, we promise] One thing's for sure, we could all benefit from reviewing Chris Rock's advice. (NSFW)

(Thanks, commenters!)

32 comments:

  1. Both sides are wrong, but there's apparently a witness for Duensing. The civil suit would be juicy, but I'd expect a settlement.

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  2. If the bullet entry points are anywhere from beside or behind him to show that he was merely fleeing [not physical threat] and not attacking [with the gun found in his pocket legally carried], then Metro is going to fund his kids' college.

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  3. I think Metro was quick to shoot and then found a gun and knife on the man and tried to cover up as usual. I find it hard to believe that someone would go to pull out his gun AND knife at the same time as Metro says. A trained shooter like Duesing would have pulled his gun and used the free hand to support the shooting hand. He wouldn't have grabbed a gun with one hand and a knife with the other.

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  4. I have fond memories of having the shit kicked out of me by some cops in New Jersey a long time ago. The situation deteriorated because I had a big mouth and the cop had a pea-sized brain. A similar stop in NYC (of all places) had the cop verbally taking me down without incident. (Seriously, that one sharp fellow did very much to rehabilitate all cops. A professional.)

    My take is that the cop did not use his verbal combat training and poor Duensing presented a poor oral argument. What Duensing probably didn't know, and the cop didn't tell him, was that it is currently policy to arrest on all traffic warrants - no exceptions.

    If cop had come to him and said, "bro, I am so sorry but I have to take you in. Listen, I know it is a horrible situation to go to jail for a traffic citation, but it is still early in the day and I bet they release you by evening without bail. My computer tell me you are a licensed gun owner. Please be so kind and tell me where the weapon is so I can take it in a dignified manner. Let me repeat, you have no choice, nor do I. Backup is on the way. Let's make this a painless experience for you and me. Thank you, Citizen. I want you to know that I thank you and all taxpayers for paying my wages."

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  5. 8:37 - that's EXACTLY what I think happened. Shoot first, "whoops," ... rummage through the guy's pockets while he's on the ground. "Oh, hey, he had a gun."

    "He was reaching for it!"

    "And THEN you shot him."

    "Yeah."

    "And he was going to get this pocket knife out too."

    "Of course."

    "Man, it's a good thing we shot him too, because he could have hurt bystanders. Luckily, my 'years of training and experience as an officer'* saved the day."

    *repeat as necessary

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  6. Ah, yeah... Sorry, but the guy practices without a license and has outstanding traffic warrants. Yes, that's no excuse to get shot, but he seems to have problems with the truth...

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  7. Jim is licensed to practice law in the state of Nevada. Don't defame a guy who is in the ICU this very minute.

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  8. Law school was over 25 years ago, and I have practiced nothing but civil since, but my recollection is that cops can not use deadly force to effectuate a mistameaner arrest, only a felony.

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  9. Hey 9:31, let's not play the sympathy card over his stay in ICU - after all, his injuries don't prevent him from enjoying his 15 minutes of fame with the media...

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  10. lol @ 9:37

    I can picture you sounding out MISTA-MEAN-ER in your head as you typed that.

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  11. You're right--retract about my comment about him not being licensed. He is. In fact, he works for Levinson--that's probably more of an insult that not being licensed IMHO.

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  12. This is another Metro cover story. How are they gonna get around "shooting in the back", though. Metro is gonna get hurt (legally) on this one.

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  13. Duensing is a political whacko (read his stuff, this guy is out there). I would not surprise me to learn he was mouthy and difficult with the cops. But even so, this seems a bit excessive by Metro.

    Duensing wins in a split decision. Metro would have had a better chance if they had killed him (dead men tell no tales).

    Walt Canon is going to make A LOT of money on this one! And in two years or so, Duensing will be a multi-millionaire.

    So the lawyers get rich; isn't that what it's all about?

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  14. hmm... Policy, practice, or custom to shoot fleeing "mista-mean-ers" in the back?

    8:22 is right... settlement... and a BIG one. Some plaintiff's attorney is going to retire after this.

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  15. Now I'm confused. You can shoot a suspect in the back so long as he is meaner in the mist?

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  16. Guns, knives, taser, shooting a fleeing suspect, -- that's all interesting in its own right, but my question is how can we work Judge Miley into this story to add some sex appeal????????????

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  17. I would like to taze Judge Miley.

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  18. "Don't tase me bro" or shoot me.

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  19. @ 2:52 PM. I ROFL'd at the mental picture of tasing Miley.

    I think I need help ...

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  20. I had a case with Jim Duensing. He was very pleasant and sensible.
    This is so hard to imagine. Fleeing from an arrest on a traffic warrant does not justify almost being killed and shot several times.This is very unreasonable behavior by the police--no different than the "Ice Cream" truck incident.
    Very sad but he is very lucky. The police seek a confrontation. Traffic cops have notoriously short fuses. He was going to be roughed up no matter what he did. Even though we have the right to carry and transport guns, the cops don't like them.

    Anonymous

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  21. 1. "Calmly" trying to talk way out of ticket. Maybe. So calmly you got tased? We all know Metro is aggressive and has an itchy collective trigger finger, but Duesning's account doesn't make sense.

    2. Speaking of trigger fingers, why did Duensing not immediately inform the cop he as packing?
    For all his boasting of being "a firearms instructor at the world’s largest firearms training facility" Duesning should know the standard advice is to immediately let a copy know you're carrying and then proceed as told.

    Cops don't like surprises. Cops don't like armed suspects running away. Did the cop know he was armed? It could have shown up if the cop had run Duensing's driver license.

    3. Running from cop = dumb. Sorry. That's asking to get shot. And Duesning probably knows it,

    This was obviously a situation that got stupidly out of hand, but I think Duensing did more to escalate it than people are giving him credit for. I don't know if he simply panicked and got a terrible case of the stupids or was being Confrontational Libertarian Guy. Either way, I think he bears a fair bit of culpability for the situation. That said...

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  22. "3. Running from cop = dumb. Sorry. That's asking to get shot. And Duesning probably knows it,"

    Bwahaha...that's exactly the point. Running FROM a cop should not be enough for a cop to shoot you. Running TOWARDS a cop, yes, but running away is a different story. LV cops are trigger happy, and they should not be shooting people who are running a way from them.

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  23. To everyone who thinks he should have immediately announced his firearm:

    Did you ever consider that not all cops are immediately at ease with the idea of an armed person in their vicinity?

    Announcing your firearm potentially (and unnecessarily) escalates the tension in the situation.

    The real question here is the tazing. Why was Jim tazed, and just when was the tazer fired?

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  24. If a cop lets an armed person flee then the armed person shoots someone later, Metro would get the blame for that. Sounds like a no-win situation for the cop.

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  25. Help me out here. Why would a person who is an attorney and should know better post a statement or his version of events before the dust settles.
    Admissions exception/exclusion. At this point, he does not know the police officers version of events but now they know his. And know you know the rest of the story.

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  26. 3:02 - as you noted by omission, he is not a good attorney?

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  27. 3:02 PM is of course dead-on correct. This video is an outstanding summary of why you never, ever, ever talk to the cops. Ditto yapping before you are sworn in to your depo.

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  28. 8:19 and 11:52

    Having been a CCW carrier (I carry my handgun EVERY day) for 6 years now, I always announce when I get pulled over (which is more than I want to admit) that I have a CCW and am in possession of a firearm. This was made very clear that while not an obligation, its the safest and most courteous practice.

    Metro cops, Utah cops and Az cops have always asked where the weapon is and if it is loaded. My response is honest. "Its in my waistband, my pocket, my center console and Yes, its loaded, but does not have a round chambered."

    This response has never (in over a dozen traffic stops) even raised an officers eyebrow.

    Duensing is lying, plain and simple. Are Metro cops trigger happy, maybe. Unjustifiably, not even close. Id rather see a thread on their driving abilities (these days) than their propensity to use deadly force.

    Duensing should have identified him as a CCW permit holder even before the cop SCOPE'd him. When the warrant comes back, the officer would have had him calmly and slowly remove the weapon and arrested him without incident.

    Duensing is FOS. That much is clear.

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  29. Two thoughts:

    1. From what has been printed, it seems like the officer was too quick to use his Taser. Because the Taser is potentially lethal, it should be treated as an alternative to deadly force. (i.e. only used when deadly force would otherwise be authorized, such as when an officer reasonably perceives a threat to his own life) I don't pretend to be an expert on Metro procedures, but it seems like a trained officer should be able to handle a traffic stop like this without use of force.

    2. He was pulled over in a rental car because he had an outstanding warrant? How did the officer know who was driving?

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  30. Does anyone know if Duensing actually had a CCW permit. If he did not have a permit and the gun was concealed, Metro would seize the gun, book him on CCW charges, and the gun would forfeited. Some of these .45 caliber handguns costs a $1,000.00 dollars or more. Could this be another reason Duensing fled? The bottom line is that we don't know all the facts and may never know all the facts.

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  31. @8:07

    He was pulled over for a traffic violation. The cop then ran his license for outstanding warrants (which is standard operating procedure). The search turned up an arrest warrent issued for failure to appear/pay a prior HOV lane violation.

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