LV Now is reporting (via current Boyd student Colleen McCarty) that after the January 4th federal courthouse shooting began, a crowd of people in the lobby of the RJC pushed their way past the metal detectors without being screened:Neither Glasper [head of RJC security] nor Clark County Courts Spokesman Michael Sommermeyer discussed the events of January 4th in detail. But, sources tell the I-Team a panicked public, fleeing the sound of gunfire, pushed past the metal detectors at the Regional Justice Center and into the lower level. The security breach was one reason authorities shut down the building. "We took the necessary precautions to protect the public," Glasper said.It's well known that security at the RJC is under-funded and, as a result, under-staffed. That's been the reason given for the closing of the south entrance. However, what really caught our eye about the LV Now story was Clark County Courts Security Chief Lt. George Glasper's estimate of how many people they actually catch attempting to smuggle weapons into the courthouse:
"We do have probably 10 percent of the folks who are coming in who are actually trying to smuggle a weapon in to do harm."Ten percent?! As in one in ten people who go through security at the RJC are in possession of a weapon? If that number is even remotely accurate judges, attorneys and court personnel should be absolutely outraged.
While we commend the job that the current security officers are doing, it is inexcusable for the RJC to be under-staffed with a threat level that is so ridiculously high. It's time for the county to step up and take security at the RJC seriously before we have another tragic incident occur.
We'd like to hear your thoughts and comments on this situation. Were any of you in the building when the breach occurred on January 4th? What do you think needs to be done in order to improve this situation? We know the powers-that-be are reading ... let them know how you feel.
(LV Now)
I caught the story last night. I found it interesting that Channel 8 reported that the RJC's South Entrance was closed due to recommendations by the U.S. Marshall's office, while comments on this site have been saying for months it was budget cuts. While it might make for better PR to say the South Entrance was closed as a security measure, I think the main reason was funding.
ReplyDeleteI have always believed that the best security is a well armed public. I think all legally armed citizens should be allowed to carry whatever weapons they choose, wherever they choose. If this were the case, all of the recent shootings in the past few years would have ended after the suspect got a few shots off, then 3-4 "victims" shot back and killed them...hence a much lower injury and death toll.
ReplyDeleteThe allegation that 10% of the people entering the RJC have a weapon is beyond ridiculous. As someone who has gone through the security checkpoint there a lot over the last few years, there is no way they are detaining 1 percent much less 10 percent (unless they are counting belts).
ReplyDeleteTen percent??! That is mind bottling.
ReplyDelete8:27, perhaps the "funding" issue pertains the the problem with funding more security for the southern entrance. Doesn't seem like an 'either, or" to me.
8:34: A well-armed public, while it may help in some of those shootings, would likely cause more harm in the bigger picture. Giving guns to crazy people who have no business owning a gun is a sure way for more injuries to occur. There are countless instances of people with guns who end up hurting somebody because they freak out and lose control in a situation.
Ten percent sounds like someone campaining for more funding. I guess if we count belt buckles that are too big as weapons and scissors (like the airport)maybe ten percent might have impermissible items on their person. If there were that many people trying smuggle in weapons with wouldn't we see a lot more people being arrested?
ReplyDeleteWho gives a f**k anyway? I'm a karate man I bruise on the inside.
@8:56
ReplyDeleteCrazy people aren't legally allowed to carry guns. First, I dispute the notion that the people legally carrying will freak out and cause more harm than good. I have been shooting since I was 4 yrs old and have many friends that shoot as well. Personally, I don't see the average CCW holder "freaking out" and getting more people killed. I think the average CCW holder is more has more control than that.
Second, after a few defenses by the public and the crime rate will plummet because the criminals will be more wary that their potential victims, or bystanders, might be carrying a gun and will use it in defense.
As a person who likes to push buttons, I prefer that people don't have guns. All I need is some private citizen with anger management problems reaching for a gun because I called him a mouth breathing asshat.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:34 & 9:20, this is the problem. You live in a fantasy world. On the day of those tragic events, a number of exceedingly well-trained, seasoned and experienced armed professionals squeezed off dozens after dozens of rounds which struck Nevada State Bank (nearly a quarter-mile away), the 5th Street school, a couple of trees, and a couple even hit the agressor.
ReplyDeleteAre we to believe that if this is what the pros could accomplish, that you are such a dead-eye, with such calm and reason and control over your adreneline, that you would do better?
I, for one, am not buying it.
People exaggerate in order to inflate their self-importance, as well as to justify a bigger budget and more respect.
ReplyDeleteThe CDC just got through telling us that 50 million Americans had been infected with the swine flu. That is 1 in 6 out of our total population.
Guess what? I know several hundred people, and I only know ONE who had swine flu.
"mind bottling" will keep me smiling all day
ReplyDeletei would say most of the commenters are "mind bottled" already.
ReplyDeleteIf the DAs, PDs, Judges, and baliffs are carrying, might as well make it a fair fight and let John Q Public carry as well. I would feel much more comfortable if all the hookers, meth-heads, and gangbangers were packing heat in the court house.
Really, when it comes down to it, can't we accept a little collateral damage when we allow the lowest common denominators to thin themselves out?
My deep thought for the day: Who really is more of a threat, the meth-head with the switchblade, or the attorney stuck 100 people back in line waiting for idiots to take their belts and shoes off?
personally, I know that after 3 hours sleep, 5 hours at the tables, and some speed to stay awake, i'm much more dangerous if made to wait interminably for the dredge (family attorneys included) to get through security.
It sounds like I am the only one that is reading the 10% quote this way, but the way I read the quote is that out of all the contraband that is found, only 10% of the people are trying to do harm. For example, out of 100 people caught, 90 of the “weapons” are keychain knives or letter openers brought in by mistake. The other 10 are firearms or large knives that the person definitely should have known better about.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that the North Gate screens more than 5000 people per day. Over 500 weapons with the intent to do harm is no a reasonable estimate.
10:32:
ReplyDeleteI can't stop laughing at your post. Seriously. Thank you for brightening my day.
-8:56
9:14,
ReplyDeleteBut I didn't know that because I'm a big Barry White lookin' mother f***er.
Well played, 9:14, well played.
I prefer the mouth breathing asshat quote.
ReplyDelete"Who gives a f**k anyway? I'm a karate man I bruise on the inside."
ReplyDeleteTo paraphrase the Great Ice Cube, today is a good day. Some funny ass comments.
-8:56
A bit off topic, but I wish the justice courts were on the higher floors and the district courts on the lower floors. The smelly people never take the stairs anyway. Sometimes the smell in the elevators is so bad I think I'm going to pass out. Then, I have to go into the court room where old-man-attorney-with-coffee and/or morning-breath wants to whisper directly in my face for the entire time until our case is called. Eww. Just eww.
ReplyDeleteis 12:29 really calling out the stinky justice court defendents or their attorneys?
ReplyDeletedon't worry about their breathe, they really just want to look down your top.
anyone notice how women's court attire has gotten more risque over the past couple years. Couple of counsel that I'm sure moonlight as dancers.
I have noticed that. The chicks in bankruptcy court are the worst. They look like hookers.
ReplyDelete1:18 - those are paralegals, no self-respecting attorney actually goes to bankruptcy court. Can't make any $$$ if they actually make appearances.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest security problem at the RJC is some of the jack asses they hire as bailiffs/marshals/wannabe cops. Spiky-hair dude is especially bad. He's a prick and his confrontational attitude is far more likely to cause problems than solve them. He's constantly rude and provocative. The guys at federal court are a 1000 times more professional and are not creating problems at the gates. Some of the marshals at the RJC are fine, but they need to ditch the bad apples.
ReplyDeleteGotta agree with @9:42, even though I'm a card carrying libertarian firmly against banning most anything. Famous stories of cops firing 1,000 shots seem to me to outweigh stories of calm assessment and action. A (presumably less well-trained) citizenry could hardly be described as law enforcement-lite.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'd much rather there had been some panicky citizens with handguns on the New York subway, at McDonalds, and on United 93.
Aaaaaand just as I type this, we get a shooting in Huntsville, Ala. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35372168/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
ReplyDeleteHow many of the shot do you think were packing?
I wish some of those meth heads with weapons would come down to the stan fulton bldg today and put me out of my misery. This bridging the gap CLE for new attorneys is HORRIBLE.
ReplyDelete@ 914
ReplyDeleteLooking good, Billy Ray
12:29 - could NOT agree with you more. A few years back I did an externship in the RJC and had to be there every day - during the 115degree summer. My eyes would watering from the smell in the elevator. That unwashed-crotch/up-all-night-drinking/BO/cigarette smoke/rot breath combination was just too much. When forced to take the elevator, I chose to stop breathing. Tried to take the escalator/stairs combination whenever possible.
ReplyDeleteThe unwashed masses are too much for your refined sensibilities? Have you ever done a jury trial in Clark County? Those are your jury pool, by and large. Laern to relate to them, or you WILL be in trouble before them.
ReplyDeleteTry leaving your guidled Summerlin cage and learning how the real world lives. Have lunch at McDonald's, then spend a leisurely afternoon at the swap meet or the dollar store.
Few of us were born with silver spoons in our mouths. Most of us come from far humbler origins than our current stations in life. It never ceases to amaze me just how quickiy and completely we wish to distance ourselves from our roots.
"Try leaving your guidled Summerlin cage and learning how the real world lives."
ReplyDeleteGuidled? I wouldn't normally quibble, but I think you picked the wrong word and then bothched that.
I spent half an hour recently trapped in a conference room with a prospective client. Every time he spoke, I braced myself for the breath that would arrive 2 seconds later. Awful.
I put my items on the belt to go through the xray machine, walked through the metal detector, and picked up my items without the marshal even looking. He was facing the information desk talking to someone, and probably did not even know I had gone through his line. Granted it was the attorney line, but I have seen non-attorneys go through that line at times as well.
ReplyDeleteI am still furious they closed the South Entrance. Every judge and administrator who had a hand in that deserves to be fired.
ReplyDeleteAs for the 10% quote: puh-lease! What a load of horseshit.
Does anyone know if the CCBA $50 pass card is worth the money?
ReplyDeleteI have a concealed weapons permit. I am glad that I do, but under the circumstances with the laws, I am not allowed to have my weapon inside a federal building or court house. With that being said: "What good is my concealed weapons permit, going to do to protect me or other's, if I can't have my weapon? Ironic, that on the day of the shooting I have a permit, but can't shoot back? Thought's?
ReplyDelete11:03 PM - only a ninny would argue with you.
ReplyDelete5:43 - I find it hilarious how wrong people usually are when making assumptions about anotherfrom high atop a soapbox perch. By no means do I consider myself upper-crusty. Personally, I grew up poor but clean. Because I don't enjoy being trapped in an overcrowded elevator reeking of stench, I am an elitist? Hee hee! I have spent enough time with jury pools to know that they DON'T, on average, tend to be comprised of scum of the earth.
ReplyDeleteThe "marshals" are just wannabe cops that couldn't cut it. Its an entry-level position that anyone off the street can get. The 10% quote is a reflection of that. There is absolutely NO WAY that 10% of the people entering have weapons.
ReplyDeleteAs for the smelly people... couldn't agree more. When I was pregnant and experiencing morning sickness it was all I could do to not vomit on the elevator. I basically had to hold my breath and try to not pass out.
311
ReplyDeleteFeeling good! Louis.
534
ReplyDeleteI dont know about your roots, but mine involved a shower and toothbrush. On those elevator days, I am a mouth breathing azzhat.
I was outside the federal courthouse parking my car when the incident occurred. The public report is the same reactions occurred at the federal courthouse. We emailed FBI SAC Kevin Favreau in October when we learned of his new assignment to the Las Vegas field office. Former SAC Steve Martinez was aware of the crimes of public justice and did nothing exacerbating the crimes. Now Metro and FBI have implemented a police state in response to the shootings. Preventive law enforcement makes more sense than this overreaction which results in criminalizing victims. Metro and FBI have to establish units to investigate crimes of public justice. To date, they refuse even though both are law (NRS 199 and USC Title 12, Part I).
ReplyDeleteMarshalls? Is that what they call them now? I thought the were bailiffs. What happened?
ReplyDeletebailiffs are now marshalls bc they are no longer lvmpd. i believe they are city of lv marshalls. old timers still call them bailiffs.
ReplyDeleteSomeone explain to me how more $ equals better police work - or, in this case, Marshall work. Instead of one person ignoring the monitor two will? Instead of one ass hole yelling at law abiding citizens and law breaking jack offs alike, two will?
ReplyDeleteIf 10% are carrying weapons in, why is it accepted that more funding will solve the problem? If 10% are getting through, then they all - from the brass on down, should be fired. Money isn't the problem, lazy ass holes who actually have a job don't do it very well. Yet, the answer always seems to be more funding.
Though sometimes funding may be a valid solution, like in situations where the coverage is lacking, such is not the case here. They have a Marshall on each machine, one standing on the far left, acting as if the gods themselves voted him king, telling people to take off their shoes, another marshall yelling at everyone to take their stuff to the tables to put it all back on and yet another one carrying the trays back and forth. Maybe the extra funding can pay for yet another Marshall to stand just outside the entrance doors call us all names as we walk in the door. "Hey fat ass, what the hell are you doing here, ugly people like you should stay home."
Hey 8:56, when you unbottle your mind, maybe you can share some of these "countless" examples? One or two won't work...provide some useful cite to a source of these "countless" examples, unless of course, you've personally witnessed all these "countless" situations yourself.
ReplyDeleteSince I have 5 fingers on each hand and thus can easily count to 10, I would expect "countless" to be beyond that number. So you should easily be able to provide more than 10 examples (since there are "countless" ones from which to choose from.)
10:08,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't commenting on your crustiness, upper or otherwise. I was commenting on your use of the word "guidled," which in context seems to be an incorrect spelling--of the WRONG WORD. You meant gilded, used guilded, and then topped it off with a spelling error. I found that amusing.
You managed to combine insecurity and projection when you responded to what you assumed I was saying, instead of reading the actual content.
As for the gripe about the breath guy, I just figured this would be a good place to vent once someone opened the door to the funked up summer elevator. Seriously, anyone with breath like that could at least brush or chew gum when they're going to be with people.
This is classic. Judge Halverson's legacy continues...this time in some little girl's pants. The trauma of her elephantine pheet made him do it; I swear.
ReplyDelete7:23:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your math lesson and confirmation that you, like many others, have ten fingers. So. without further ado, please see the list of instances below, along with links/cites, per your request. As you stated, since there are countless examples to choose from, I was limited in how many to post. However, I posted your requested ten, plus two bonus cases-I particularly like the one about the guy who shot another guy over a text message-classy.
The funny thing is, I think you actually posted your comment thinking that it would be difficult to find instances of some jackass losing control with a gun and killing/injuring somebody. Really?......really? Do you live under a rock? I mean, it is completely understandable for you to take a position contrary to mine, and have a reasonable debate regarding gun control and the likelihood of crime decreasing if all citizens are armed, but to completely bury your head in the sand and act like the sky isn't blue seems a little off kilter. Oddly enough, I really believe that you thought these sad, crazy-ass stories didn't exist. Stay classy my friend.....stay class. And enjoy the reading. If you would like more, I can get my second grade son to work his Google magic and retrieve another couple hundred cases for your President's Day reading pleasure.
http://www.barkingdogs.net/newscoault.shtml
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-629157.html
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1998&dat=20060910&id=3CQyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wKoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3347,1326057
http://www.carrborocitizen.com/main/2008/01/31/man-killed-in-carrboro-plaza-shooting/
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20100127/LOCAL07/100129607/1002/LOCAL
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/crime/archives/2010/02/man-shot-as-del.html
http://www.wgal.com/news/20395816/detail.html
http://www.khsltv.com/mostpopular/story/Oroville-Man-Killed-in-Dispute-With-Neighbor/gofBcFl9sk62jAhoYUNtbA.cspx
http://cbs13.com/local/sacramento.shooting.neighbors.2.1485798.html
http://www.khou.com/home/PolicePasadena-woman-shoots-neighbors-husband-after-dispute-79760932.html
http://savannahnow.com/news/2009-10-28/texting-leads-shooting
http://www.registercitizen.com/articles/2009/04/01/news/doc49d2f00c75554985232216.txt
7:49 - 10:08 here. I meant to say I was replying to 5:34, not 5:43 (typo - dyslexia acting up). I was AGREEING with you that I can't stand the stink. I'm not the one with the "guilded cage" comment; rather I'm the one accused of being in one. Maybe LU is on to something that we should post under pseudonyms instead of anonymous. Where has LU been lately, anyway?
ReplyDeleteOh my 8:56 (now 10:49.) Like so many "countless" attorneys in our fair town, you run a quick search and grab on to a three word string that matches your boolean hope, citing cases inapposite to the point and well, ridiculously useless.
ReplyDeleteI only looked at the first of your string of links. Did you read the report? Guess not. That guy wasn't even charged with murder! The guy he shot came at him with a baseball bat, breaking the glass to his front door to get in.... You are right, he is crazy - he should have let his neighbor beat him senseless before he shot him. Now, whether he should have shot him so quickly, rather than brandishing the weapon to cool the neighbor off is something that can be debated, but being debatable makes it out of your "crazies" realm. Yet, you led off with this one. Really, do you lead off with inapposite cases in your pleadings as well? Come on....
8:34's comment, the one you retorted, suggested that "legally armed citizens should be allowed to carry whatever weapons they choose." Now, I know this requires thinking beyond the letters that make up the words....so I'll be super clear. 8:34 said "legally armed" citizens should be allowed to "carry" weapons around. Citizens concerned with what is "legal" and what is not, do not walk around with a gun strapped to their side in the wide open. There is only one way to carry a gun when it's hidden behind clothing. . . . in other words, and I'll write this slowly, so you can keep up:
c-o-n-c-e-a-l
c-a-r-r-y
p-e-r-m-i-t.
Of course, you state that crazies shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, but that's not what 8:34 was suggesting. I guess I should have realized you didn't understand, in which case I would have passed your comment on by as irrelevant dribble.
However, you go off and run a quick boolean search to find "crazies" who shot someone, not conceal carry holders. Then you lead off with a guy who was being attacked when he used his firearm and was thus never charged. I mean, at least choose some meth-head who shot someone for looking at him wrong.
Yet, based on the plain language of your comment, I guess I erred in calling you on it, as you clearly were not understanding what was gong on. However, your astute legal mind should have understood it. (8:56, 11:03 and 9:19 understood this just fine...of course, maybe the four of us are the only "crazies" that got it?)
So, if you didn't understand that the proposition was: a person who bothers to legally obtain a special permit - FBI background check and all - should be allowed to use that permit in a meaningful way, then I stand corrected.
Crazies use guns in illogical ways....really? I've been truly informed. Your comments that crazies shouldn't be allowed to own a gun is truly informative and and unique in its forward-thinking logic. We should definetely pass a law.
However, I'd like to see "countless" examples of conceal carry holders going berzerk. This would have been on point. I don't think anyone would argue that "crazies" shouldn't be allowed to conceal carry, possibly purchase, a firearm.
I apologize for not realizing that you didn't get it.
1:11 AM?
ReplyDeleteYou gotta get out more. Shit if you've got time to blog a 2,000 word essay maybe you can write some of my pre-trial motions for me.
1:11 a.m.?!?!
ReplyDeleteI ran a "quick boolean search to find "crazies"" (see para. 5 of your post), and it directed me to your own post there. Interesting.
1:11, the following recent stories came up in the first two pages of a google news search using the words "permit" and "shooter." Not complicated.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/20/AR2010012005139.html?hpid=moreheadlines ("Friends, in letters in support of his successful 1995 application for a concealed weapons permit, called him 'an upstanding, Christian young man' and 'very mature and responsible.'" -- Until he shot and killed 8 people, I guess.)
http://www.examiner.com/x-19336-Detroit-Crime-Examiner~y2010m2d8-Detroit-motorist-fatally-shoots-another-driver-in-apparent-road-rage-incident ("A Detroiter with no criminal record and a valid CCW permit pulled his weapon and shot another man as both were driving eastbound on Hall Road just west of Groesbeck. Clinton Twp Police continue to investigate the incident, which they believe to be a case of 'road rage.'")
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700005927/Police-say-teacher-was-killed-by-former-mother-in-law.html ("Hanson is a concealed weapons permit holder . . ." who shot her ex-daughter-in-law.)
http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=11902867 ("Police say she had a permit to carry the gun that was involved in the shooting." -- of a mother in front of her children)
I'm sure there are many, many more. These are just from articles posted in the last few weeks.
(If you need to see 10 or 11, spend a few minutes with the same search.)
Hey, let's not beat up on 1:11 am. I feel passionate about certain stuff and appreciate it when others are compelled by such passion to educate us all.
ReplyDeleteAnd, really, every man, woman and child over the age of 14 should be well-schooled in how to use a gun. I can remember target practice in high school - and I ain't that old.
Reading all this made me think...what are we suggesting? Only police should have firearms - is that what is being averred?
ReplyDeleteMy favorite: cop shoots himself "cleaning his gun."
http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=50374&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+officerrss%2Ftop_news_stories+(Officer.com%3A+Top+News+Stories)
This one is a video on Youtube! This is absolutely hilarious. This cop is actually telling the crowd why it is only police should be the ones to carry firarms...and he shoots himself! When he grabs the AR-15, or rather asks for it because he can't walk, the room scatters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAVYFRM5Tl8
In this case, it was the police chief who shot himself:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3235320
This one killed himself:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/15/nyregion/police-officer-kills-himself-in-his-home.html?pagewanted=1
Another one kills himself:
http://www.policeone.com/suicide-by-cop/articles/1698067-Officer-dies-after-shooting-himself/
This is the ultimate cop web page! It chronicles all the great things (read crimes) committed by the boys in blue.
http://www.familylawcourts.com/badcop.html
So, is this who we trust?