Perennial law firm sweatshop Alverson, Taylor, Mortensen & Sanders is apparently feeling the pinch of the decline in the economy. Oh what to do when profits are down?Word is they're taking firm-paid medical insurance away from their associates and asking its attorneys to pay out of pocket.
Seems about right. Walmart does the same thing. Why shouldn't Alverson, Taylor? They are hourly employees after all.
While the economy's clearly putting pressure on all the firms in the Vegas Valley, it seems a little harsh to make your associates hourly workers, eliminate their 401k match and then eliminate their medical insurance.
What do you think readers? Fair or foul?
Working at Alverson Taylor beats not working at all, I think. You have college graduates fighting over a job at McDonald's these days, after all.
ReplyDeleteBut once the market recovers, Alverson Taylor is probably also going to be at the bottom of every job seeker's list. That is, if Alverson Taylor still exists by then, and if it wasn't at the bottom of the list to begin with.
Because Alverson Taylor is the first Las Vegas firm to make their associates pay out of pocket for medical insurance, right???
ReplyDeleteCome on...
This is too sad to even make fun of. Sorry to all the Alverson employees/associates.
ReplyDeleteGreat location, if you live on the west side. And if you're an attractive female, the senior partners will pay attention to you.
ReplyDeleteIs this new policy for the emplyee attorneys themselves or just for the employee attorneys' dependents?
ReplyDeletefor the attorneys and their dependents
ReplyDeleteWalmart employees do not pay their insurance benefits solely. Walmart pays a GREAT portion and the employee as most companies pays a SMALL percentage.
ReplyDeleteWhere are Alverson apologists today?
ReplyDeleteAs I understand, ATMS paid 100% of the insurance premiums for the employees and dependants. Can anyone confirm that? How did that compare to the other firms in town. I heard they are still paying 50% of the premium for basic coverage for employees and dependants
ReplyDeleteI was just wondering as to the definition of the term "sweatshop." In looking at the post on July 2008, the required billings for most of the LV firms were listed and they ranged from 1750 to 2000. Alverson Taylor required 1840, at least according to the post. If 1840 is considered a "sweatshop", what would the firms that require more hours than that be called. Like I said, I was just wondering.
ReplyDelete@ 3:21pm
ReplyDeleteWell, it was basically the only "perk" they had left after the cut out the raises and the 401K. I'm also guessing that most Las Vegas firms have at least a shred of respect for their associates.
@ 4:59pm
It is true that Alverson previously paid 100% and is now paying 50%, and it doesn't look bad on the surface. What you must know, however, is that ATMS's health insurance is through an ATMS client. This means that ATMS pays extremely high rates for garbage coverage. I guess it's the insurance company's payback for ATMS's billing rates.
@ 5:10pm
I'm not sure about the technical definition of "sweatshop," but I can tell you that there is much more to it than total billable hours.
"Much more to it than total billable hours". Like what? Share the dirt
ReplyDelete@ 6:19
ReplyDeleteLets put it this way:
The firm doesn't have any paralegals, in fact, as an associate, YOU are the paralegal.
90% of your billing entries begin with "Review and Summarize."
Want a photocopy of that document? Give it to your secretary to fill out a form and send it down to the fully-staffed "copy room," you should get it back in about 2 to 4 hours.
Instead of paying associates a salary like every other firm in the world, the firm pays you as an hourly employee. This essentially places the hardship of dealing with client frugality/cheapness squarely on the shoulders of the associates instead of on the partners. If a client decides they don't want to pay for billable time, the motivation for partners to argue with the client is now gone.
Speaking of pay, associates start around $80,000, but few actually make full salary due to the firm's practice of prolifically cutting hours.
While the firm admits that $80,000 is low, they sweeten the deal with "guaranteed" $6,000 raises every 6 months ("merit based" after that), 401K matching up to 10% (vesting at 2% per year), and paid health insurance for you and your family, all of which is gone now.
Be very grateful if you have never done a "Medical Chronology" as a licensed attorney.
I can hear the response to this now: "Boo hoo! The economy sucks, be thankful you have a job." I'm just trying to explain why the name "ATMS" is rarely discussed without the word "sweatshop" being inserted somewhere.
Perhaps "sweatshop" isn't the proper way to describe ATMS, but "Shitty Place To Work" just doesn't roll off the tongue. I guess you really have to work here and experience it for yourself. Anyone want to swap positions?
Well, that Sucks.
ReplyDeleteATMS is either doing what they have to do to stay afloat, or they are seeing an opportunity to "trim" at the expense of employees. Probably, a bit of both.
I can't say I think that is somehow unethical, but I do wonder if it is wise business practice. If they increase compensation (total compensation, including benefits) when the market recovers then maybe they can hold on to employees. Or maybe people will feel slighted and flee as soon as they can, compensation aside.
I don't see any need to disparage people who work there, though. Honestly, they are doing a lot better than a lot of people I know. I don't want to be an apologist, but objectively this isn't the worst thing to happen to associates in this economy.
@ 6:54
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like if you had any self respect, not to mention backbone, you would tell the partners how you feel, then quit. To stay and whine makes you sound pathetic.
I think most people are critical of the partners and management rather than disparaging to associates who work there.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is - ATMS doesn't give a rip if their associates leave after a year or two, in fact, it is what their whole business model is based on. They can treat their associates like garbage because: 1) tons of law students aren't privy to this information; and 2) a job is better than no job and there are plenty of attorneys looking for work.
And don't kid yourself about the 1840 - it's 2000. And from what I gather, associates get grief every month they don't make hours regardless of excess hours billed the previous months.
Paying for attorney and dependents is unusual. Of the firms I looked at - less than 1/2 paid for dependents. It didn't seem to be a salary based, or top firm thing either.
ReplyDeleteBut that sucks for the people who depend on the coverage. If your spouse doesn't have coverage, thats about a $6000-$8000 paycut.
I believe it will hit their support staff the hardest. Most of them will not be able to pay the difference and will be without insurance now. The partners there must not care for their employees at all.
ReplyDeleteFor clarification, ATMS pays for 1/2 of the basic plan, which means they pay around $80. (The basic plan means the worst plan available, and only for the employee). They do not contribute to any of the other plans or any of the additions, i.e. spouse, family etc.
ReplyDeleteSo if you want decent health care, you have to get the next step up (which apparently is what is equivalent to what employees now have)
If you have a family, I've been told that it costs around $750 a month and it's not even that great of coverage.
Finally, I agree with the last poster. If you are support staff, yes, you are SCREWED.
ATTENTION EMPLOYERS!!!!
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT a joke.
If you are interested in hiring an ATMS employee, please send an email to: lookingforgreenergrass@gmail.com
Thanks for your consideration. Work history, qualifications, etc. will be provided upon request.
"It sounds like if you had any self respect, not to mention backbone, you would tell the partners how you feel, then quit. To stay and whine makes you sound pathetic."
ReplyDeleteHey retard, about half the attorneys in town already did. Just because you "pretend" to like it at that pathetic place because you can't get a job anywhere else makes you sound just as pathetic. Go do some more "review and evaluates" at $150 an hour. NOW.
I know many people who would prefer working at ATMS to sitting on the couch watching Oprah and eating bon-bons while falling deeper into debt and closer to bankruptcy. In today's economy it is an employer's market, so employees/associates/paralegals will generally take what they can get. But - how one treats another during hard times is a true indicator of one's character - this will come back to bite them in the backside.
ReplyDeleteAs to the 'sweat shop' moniker, it's my understanding, based on conversations with friends who worked at ATMS in the past, that their 'billable' requirement is more of a 'billed' requirement. i.e. you spend 40 hours on a partner assigned project for a client, that's billable time - but if the partner comes to you when you're done and says 'sorry, the client ended up not needing it' and they don't bill the client for the work, your time isn't 'billed' so ATMS sweeps that time into the 'non-billable' category.
In comparison, my firm requires around 2,000 hours as well, but if I spend 40hrs on something, even if the partner ends up not billing the client for it after-the-fact, it is still credited as billable time towards my time requirement.
@ 8:55
ReplyDeleteSounds like a raw nerve was hit. Maybe a little too close to home?
Typical ATMS move. There's a reason there are so many former AT employees floating around town. They've been doing this type of thing for years. Talk to 10 attorneys in town and probably 5 of them worked for this firm at one point in time. They have the pink palce to pay for and maintain.
ReplyDeleteI have to laugh. Last year at the annual Craig Kenny party, a really dorky 3L from Boyd cornered me and proceded to brag about how he was strongly considering going to work for AT. After speaking to this guy for a couple of minutes, I determined that his primary qualification for working there as an attorney would be his apparent ability to draw breath.
ReplyDeleteListen folks, not everyone can, or should, work at a place like Lionel Sawyer (which by the way is having its own problems these days). A year or two at a place like AT will get you some basic litigation experience and allow you to draw a paycheck. It's crappy meaningless work and not a very pleasant place; but it's not the worst place in town to work either. Insurance defense is a grind anywhere. You'll do some depositions, maybe even an arb in your first year at some of the defense houses (it used to be that you'd do a trial in your first year, but that was before Boyd and the glut of lawyers in Vegas, ah, the old days). You'll learn to overbill your time, suck up to claims adjusters, beat up on weak personal injury plaintiffs, and detest chiropractors. It's insurance defense; it sucks. But you can tell mommy and daddy that you work for a respectable law firm with partners, and secretaries, and conferenence rooms, and your very own telephone extension number. You'll even get to wear a suit now and again. Oh boy! It's just like on TV!
The alternative is to go downtown and learn to practice street law - and that has its own drawbacks. Have you ever been in the County jail?
Love all the ATMS partners who posted anonymously defending their firm. Nice balls, guys.
ReplyDelete@11:06 AM
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with Lionel Sawyer? More dish please :)
Yeah, almost as ballsy as the rest of the contributors here who hide behind their monitors and talk trash ...
ReplyDeleteLSC lives and breathes on gaming. Gaming is down, conservatively 10 - 15%, depending on which stats you believe. It's also a hierarchical snobatorium. Associates are paid fairly well, but treated like meat. Bob Faiss is author of the term "warm billing unit" as a description for associates.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone at ATMS said the changes in benefits are permanent? Where are those comments about what other firms contribute to health insurance? Gosh . . . if only it WERE just like on TV!
ReplyDeleteA new post has been created for everyone to post about health benefits at their firm.
ReplyDeleteThere's been a call for some quantitative evidence that ATMS' health insurance cut backs are out of the ordinary. So go to the post on health insurance and let us know what your firm provides.
I worked at Alverson in 2006 as a new grad. They paid 100% of my insurance premiums for me and my family. I've worked at a few different firms since then, and no one has ever paid all of my premiums. Some will pay for the attorney's premiums, but then I'd have to pay to cover my family.
ReplyDeleteWhile it may not seem like such a huge deal for Alverson to make associates pay 50% of their insurance premiums, its more of a problem when you consider that perks like the insurance and the 401k match were heavily relied on in recruiting associates. They'd drill into you that while you your salary wasn't as high as other Vegas associates, things were much more comparable when you totaled up all the benefits. Now, with the hourly pay, bonus suspension, 401k match gone, and now this (not to mention the lack of parking reimbursement at court!), Alverson really doesn't compare at all.
Having said that, it still beats being unemployed.
I'll post under my identity if you'll post under yours, Eric Taylor.
ReplyDeleteBruce just wants to make sure he sees the same profits, even if it means making his whole office suffer. Once again, its a case of the big guy only looking out for himself.
ReplyDelete@ 8:58 am
ReplyDeleteIt's always all about Bruce, and sadly the other partners lack the backbone or balls to do anything. But, isn't he the only "owner" anyway?
I've heard that there are no equity partners.
Does anyone have info about this?
@11:54 p.m.
ReplyDeleteThat seems right, the name ATMS is a ficitious firm name under "J. BRUCE ALVERSON, LTD."
thanks for sharing.............
ReplyDelete___________________
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