Today we continue with Part 2 of our interview with legal headhunter Jordan Ross:
Question 4:Can you talk about negotiating pay with small firms that may not have set salary grades for incoming employees?
You can but unless you have something really valuable to bring to the table in this market, probably not, especially if you’re a junior associate. Keep in mind Boyd Law just put 142 competitors for your job onto the market.
How do you determine what is reasonable?
For a high volume commercial job it should at least be on a par with what Associates in the Civil Division of the Clark County District Attorneys Office earn. For general commercial jobs it’s reasonable to expect to be no more than 20% from the bottom of the salary range for your class among general commercial firms. For consumer jobs, I honestly don’t know how salary ranges are determined. But again, in this market, I wouldn’t push my luck. Be glad you paycheck doesn’t bounce.Question 5:
What is your opinion of this article (from ATL):
Someone asked me about this recently. How many ways can I express how skuzzy and sleazy it is for a recruiter to take money from a candidate? And this is the Shark Pimp speaking, kids. No recruiter who belongs to NALSC (National Association of Legal Search Consultants) would do this; it’s a blatant violation of the NALSC Code of Ethics. Even without that, it’s an obvious conflict of interest in that the recruiter has a fiduciary duty to his or her clients; how can the client trust a candidate that’s promised the recruiter a kickback? And no professional search consultant in any industry with any dignity or respectability takes payment from a candidate. Even employment agencies that deal with non-exempt employees don’t do that except amongst the lowest of bottom feeders. If you are tempted to do this, you might consider paying a professional career counselor, but good ones are few and far between and they’re primarily of value to executives, not professionals.Question 6:
How is your business model holding up under current economic conditions?
Fine, thanks for asking. From one perspective it hasn’t changed much for me personally. There is virtually no demand for candidates from search firms for Associates right now. I recently placed an Associate a few months ago, but frankly this was the first Associate I placed in over six years other than some Associates who came with a Partner or were outplaced (neither of which I’m compensated for). My practice has for many years, been predominately Partners and Of Counsel.
Has your fee changed at all due to the current economic climate?
No. Hey, you know what, let me say that again. No.
Stay tuned for our final installment of the Shark Pimp Trilogy, and feel free to post any follow-ups in the comments.
First, I am appalled by the poor grammar and spelling errors that permeate both this and the previous Shark Pimp post. In the event Mr. Ross presented WWL with oral answers which were subsequently transcribed, that fact should be made known so as not to taint Mr. Ross' reputation (of which I admittedly know very little). If, however, Mr. Ross' answers were directly (and correctly) transcribed, Mr. Ross has lost credibility with at least this member of the bar.
ReplyDeleteSecond, a word to the wise. As Mr. Ross' self-described practice is concentrated on partners and of counsel, associates and Boyd students (who I suspect make up the majority of WWL's audience) should not be more discouraged than you probably already are by the Shark Pimp posts. I took a look at Craigslist last night and was frankly surprised by the number of postings seeking associate attorneys.
Is Craigslist the harbinger of Nevada's legal economy? Certainly not. It does, however, suggest that several small firms have more work than they are currently able to handle. More will follow, to be sure, and soon the big players will start to release their stranglehold on hiring. Your goal right now should be to get your foot in the door—any door.
My advice to all those looking for jobs: take a very critical look at your resume and cover letter template (to the point you make sure all the periods, colons, and semi-colons are uniformly bolded or not bolded). No matter how good you think your resume and cover letter are, they can be improved, and drastically in many cases. Additionally, have your brightest friend/family member/neighbor take a look at these documents. You will be shocked to see the number and/or severity of mistakes your eyes simply gloss over on the 27th read-through.
While you cannot escape your grades, your lack of experience, or where you attended law school/undergrad, you can certainly mollify any negative inferences by presenting yourself in the most professional way possible. And believe me, that will go a long way setting yourself apart from many of your peers in this town.
Good luck to all. Don't let the Shark Pimp get you down.
@ Supero -
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of an a**hole gets "appalled" at poor grammar and spelling errors? Probably the same jerk who thinks that the best advice that can be offered to those looking for jobs is to have their resumes and cover letters proofread. Wow, I hope someone throws a pale of sh*t on you. (See what I did there?)
By the way, have fun tonight finding the (at least) three spelling and/or grammatical errors that I spotted in your response. Sleep well.
I think attorneys should proof-read their work carefully and try to avoid grammatical mistakes, more so than people in most other professions. And a spotless resume and cover letter shows your potential employers that you are aware of this fact. Especially these days, when you have so many people fighting over so few available jobs, proof-reading your resume definitely wouldn't hurt.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, people who blog and/or respond to blogs are in a more casual setting and tend to pay less attention to what they write. So I wouldn't necessarily fault anyone for making any grammatical mistakes on this website.
As a young associate who vividly remembers the horrors of trying to find a job, I appreciate both the Shark Pimp and Supero's time and efforts. I do have to say, Supero's words are more encouraging (and a tad less arrogant) than the Shark Pimp's, at least to new graduates looking for a job in this market. And checking Craigslist is a more practical advice than anything that the Shark Pimp has managed to give.
2:30 PM might have just confirmed 12:18 PM's statement - "you can certainly mollify any negative inferences by presenting yourself in the most professional way possible. And believe me, that will go a long way setting yourself apart from many of your peers in this town."
ReplyDeleteWell said, Supero, the Shark Pimp could not be more out of touch with young associates.
ReplyDeleteWWL: never invite that sleaze ball recruiter back and instead invite Supero to write an article.
Who is Supero? Is that a legal recruiter? Sorry for my ignorance.
ReplyDeleteFear-mongering seems to be a hobby of any person who has managed to avoid the worst effects of this bad economy. I'm all for "telling it like it is" but Mr. Shark Pimp's writing conveys an odd sense of satisfaction in telling debt-loaded young associates that they are in trouble. While many of his statements may be factual, they are doubtfully helpful. Perhaps he has no intention of impressing (or helping) run-of-the-mill associates.
ReplyDeleteSupero (who ever he is) offers better advice than Mr. Shark Pimp: know that you are facing an uphill battle, but there are still opportunities out there - go fight for yours.
THE SHARK PIMP SEZ:
ReplyDeleteFor todays comments: Supero 12:18 PM, you're right about grammar, but I already groveled (not very well I admit) about that in my comments to Part 1. You are correct about seeing a number of online postings for Associates at Craiglist etc. First of many job seekers will find that a lot of these are old and no longer open; employers do a bad job of cleaning up jobs they post and to make matters worse a HUGE number of online bots constantly repost old garbage jobs so many times you can barely keep track of them; remember that as well. I'm not trying to deliberately depress folks, but I'm not going to paint a false rosy picture either. For the jobs that are out there, by all means apply, and again I point out that just because a recruiter doesn't have a job for you doesn't mean there are any jobs - most of them just aren't worth paying a recruiter for. All of Supero's advice about resumes is good, but again, that's not the be all and end all of getting a job, although I once again remind you, do not send a cover letter; just do a brief intro in the email you send it with. And he's also quite right about appearance, most people dress appallingly in this town, you can do a lot to fix that. Anon 2:30 PM, I will confess to an adolescent pleasure at your comment. NO! I MEAN I'M SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! Anyway... Anon 2:42 PM, you were pretty fair and balanced in your comments, however a) first rate jobs just aren't going to be on CraigsList, jobs yes, but not top drawer, sorry and b) I don't think I'm a tad more arrogant than Supero, I think I'm FAR more arrogant than Supero. Anon 4:15 PM, better to ask if I'm in touch with the job market, not the job seekers. And please capitalize Sleaze Ball in the future. Anon 9:39 PM, all kidding aside and I know I do a lot of it, I don't make a living off of people being out of work and I really am concerned about helping people find jobs. I'm not alarmist, the market really IS terrible right now and sugar coating that will not help. I'm just trying to impart information that won't come from most other sources. I had lunch with Mayor Oscar Goodman last Thursday at the Liberty Bell Award luncheon (who is very concerned with the future of Boyd Law School by the way) and shared with him and Juvenile Hearing Master Frank Sullivan (this years President of the Clark County Bar Association) how desperate the job situation for a lot of junior to mid level associates is right now. So no, I don't care if I impress anyone reading this, but I sincerely do want to help. Just don't ask me to be a hand wringing "nice guy", who mouths a lot of platitudes and tucks you into bed, that's not who I am.
Thanks for the sharing..........
ReplyDelete___________________
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