Lewis and Roca is apparently still willing to spend a little money in this economy. (PR).They recently stole Gregory P. Giordano away from his position as a gaming partner with Snell & Wilmer. Not a bad piece of equipment to buy, L&R. They do say those willing to spend in an economic downturn will be strongest when the economy levels out.
But it makes us wonder, how are the job prospects in this economy for partners looking to lateral? Any tips readers?
They also hired 9-11 (someone confirm the exact number please) summer associates for their
ReplyDeleteLV office.
9-11 and I didn't even get a call-back? WTF!?
ReplyDeleteYou have to be realistic about your chances.
ReplyDeleteIt's only five summers in Vegas folks from Boalt, Iowa, UC Davis, and somehow 2 from UNLV squeaked in.
ReplyDelete@ 3:13 PM:
ReplyDeleteThanks.
@ everyone else:
Apologies for the misinformation. 9-11 total then, including their Phoenix office and maybe Reno?
- 12:55 PM
@ 2:13: Ouch. Very Ouch.
ReplyDelete-1:43
You must admit, it's nice to see L&R at least take Boyd seriously and hire two summer clerksfrom Boyd. L&R is a southwest firm and is very decent for watching after its own region.
ReplyDeleteI haven't heard of any Boyd students getting summer clerkships in places like San Francisco, LA, Chicago, DC, Boston, or NY. Two summers ago when I clerked in DC, no one (and I mean no one) knew UNLV even has a law school. In fact, they barely knew that LA has law schools other than UCLA and USC (I'm a UCLA law grad, middle of the class, grew up and now work in Vegas).
The point is, if you go to Boyd, plan to make a commitment to the southwest. The rest of the country hardly knows you exist.
A lateral move for a partner in this market is very tricky, but there are some outstanding opportunities for the right partner. My own self interest aside, it really helps to use a recruiter, both for reasons of discretion and to filter out firms that may not be right without any uncomfortable or awkward meetings. But that's not to say a partner or partner group cant do it on their own. Its just more hazardous.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:46 AM makes an interesting point about Boyd in particular and so called "home town" schools in general. There are many 2nd Tier schools that in fact are competitive in the quality of legal education they provide with many 1st Tier schools. Boyd is one, USD and USF are two others. But being a nation that likes its lists, the better of the 2nd Tier schools usually do best in placing their grads close to home. That said, Boyd grads have a particular advantage in Las Vegas. Many of my clients are always hesitant to hire someone who hasn't lived here for two reasons. One of course is the heat; no one wants to go to the expense of relocating someone here only to have that new hire, during their first July/August feel that they've moved to the 8th Circle of Hell. The other is that some people find they don't care for the culture here. Someone who has graduated from Boyd shows some connection to the town and that counts for more than you might think. Plus it's a pretty damn good school.
@8:46
ReplyDeleteFYI, Boyd has had students placed at various firms/agencies in various large cities, including Washington D.C. and Los Angeles. O'Melveny, Wilmer Hale, and the Securities & Exchange Commission are the first to come to mind. However, you are right in that many people back east are not aware of Boyd's program. However, it is not completely unknown, and its reputation is gaining steam (though slowly).
Jordan says: "some people find they don't care for the culture here"
ReplyDeleteA big problem is is that once one has established himself here, it becomes very tough to leave.
Las Vegas= Hotel California
ReplyDelete11:38:
ReplyDeleteIt's less about how many one off folks you've been able to place outside of Vegas (e.g., the person who was summa at Boyd who clerked for Bybee and is now at OMM) but how many the school places regularly. How many of these firms come to OCI? Heck, how many Boyd kids get jobs at OCI at all?
@12:53
ReplyDelete"I haven't heard of any Boyd students getting summer clerkships in places like San Francisco, LA, Chicago, DC, Boston, or NY."
I'm only responding to what you said, so take it for what its worth (or, change your angle). The fact is, there are several Boyd graduates who have gone on to biglaw/big government, which isn't too bad, considering the youth of Boyd and the fact that it is a regional school.
Also, its easy to discount the summa/Bybee individual, but you can't pick and choose. After all, most schools (outside T14) you will find the top ranked students getting the best positions. Why should Boyd be any different. Is it realistic to expect bottom 25% Boyd grads get these same positions? Are you telling me that bottom 25% UCLA grads get biglaw positions? Maybe some, but not most. So even though the major big law firms don't recruit out of Vegas, you have to start somewhere. The fact is that there are Boyd grads out there getting exposure. So if the summa 9th circuit extern gets out there and gives a good solid impression of Boyd, then it increases the odds of those schools coming to OCI.
Again, I was only responding to your assertion that you haven't seen any Body grads placed in these areas.
Oh, and not to rain on your parade, but a lot east coasters hardly respect UCLA as a top school either.
Lewis Brisbois may be hiring after thier mass exodus. Anybody have any word on what happened?
ReplyDelete2:06:
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying she was a summer associate at OMM or is it more likely she got it after her clerkship?
And no, bottom 25% at UCLA is not getting big law but I bet the overall odds are better than at Boyd?
2:06 PM, who are you, the Dean of Placement at Boyd?
ReplyDeleteOkay, at the Ivy League institutions, UCLA is viewed as being a marginal step down. But the point being made by 8:46 was that the people recruiting in the Ivy League most likely know UCLA and would consider a ranked student from UCLA. Most of those same recruiters haven't heard of Boyd.
Be honest with yourself.
Gathering previous comments on a number of posts, even the large firms in Las Vegas won't even consider Boyd students unless they're in the top 15-ish percentile.
ReplyDeleteThat should say something about what Boyd is worth.
No offense to any Boyd graduates. Yes, your law school rose about 13 ranks this year. Perhaps if you keep that up for another 5 years, you can get out-of-state firms to take you seriously.
Ok, never mind. That really was an offense.
I think the law school is not as important as everyone thinks. I have hired people from first tier schools and from schools I have never heard of and had to actually check to see if it was real. I think the person's character and interview is much more important. If they get to that point, then they must have had a good resume (without any typos) and passed the telephone interview. I want attorneys who are humble, but have a bit of swagger and ready to learn. The problem with most new attorneys is they think they know everything, but in reality they have no idea how to litigate and how the law really works (i.e. whose the judge, does the case pass the common sense test, etc...).
ReplyDeleteYou have to remember who your audience is. So if you are interviewing with someone, then do some research on them, so you can relate. Most hiring partners love to have their ego stroked. Don't be a stick in the mud. Show us who you really are. You will have to fit in with the firm and different personalities, so if you are boring or uptight - don't apply.
This is just my views as a hiring partner at a smaller firm.
@4:04:
ReplyDeleteNope, not the "dean of placement," just somebody responding to somebody's comment about Boyd not placing in larger cities, which just isn't true. Is it that outrageous that I pointed that out?? Sorry if I offended you by doing so.
Also, as far as "being honest" with ourselves...are you really comparing UCLA (a 60 year old institution) with Boyd (about 10 years). My point being, it is not realistic to expect biglaw firms to flock to Boyd right out the gate. It takes time to establish a reputation (which Boyd has done a decent job of), and to let the word get out.
By the way, I'm not a die hard Boyd fan. I think the school has some serious issues, and believe that right now is a time where Boyd either tank or continue its trend upwards. But at the same time, it has done some good things and produced some good graduates, placed at great places. Be honest with yourself.
@3:41:
I don't know for sure, but I believe she summered at OMM. And of course the odds of biglaw are better at UCLA-it's had 60 years to establish a reputation (that still isn't really that great outside of the West).
The main point here was that I was addressing your initial comment, which just was not true. Again, I'm sorry if that offended you in any way.
Like grades, School Brand is merely an adequate analog for lawyering skills but is a rather crude analog. The difficulty for an interviewer is they have to make a decision with very limited information and Grades and School Brand are the easiest metrics to apply.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I've worked with people from Stanford and the University of Idaho and couldn't tell the difference.
Of course there are crappy Yale grads and really good Cooley grads. The point is more about which diploma opens the most doors for you. And some clients do care where their attorney went to school.
ReplyDeleteYou're still comparing apples to oranges. Cooley is nearly 40 years old, and has had a significant time to establish a reputation as a solid law school. Boyd is hardly over a decade old.
ReplyDeleteQuote of the day: Cooley is nearly 40 years old, and has had a significant time to -establish a reputation as a solid law school.-
ReplyDeleteWhy even bring Cooley into this argument? Cooley is nearly 40 years old and is still considered a school of last resort in Michigan. And even the really "good" Cooley grads are comparable with the middle of the pack grads from other Michigan schools - with very few exceptions.
ReplyDelete12:39
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what I said, and I stand by it. Now, I didn't say that Cooley actually DID establish a reputation as a solid law school-only that they have had 40 years to do so. Am I wrong? Is the school not at least 40 years old? Before attempting to be funny, you should probably make sure you are accurately reading/interpreting what you are making fun of.
Anon 3:31 PM asked about the recent exodus of five attorneys from Lewis Brisbois. They were led by partner Mike Edwards who is now the managing partner for the Las Vegas office of Wilson Elser. My understanding is that all five were partners (this is not confirmed). If that's the case, not only will LB not be hiring replacements, but likely will have to layoff Associates no longer being fed.
ReplyDelete