And now for the final installment of out interview with Jordan "Shark Pimp" Ross:
Do you think the recent BigLaw layoffs will send a flood of ivy league grads to Nevada in search of jobs? If so, how will this affect the legal market in Vegas?
Not that many. We have no reciprocity in Nevada and getting someone to move to Las Vegas is damn hard. Trust me; I know this better than anyone else.
What advice would you give to Boyd 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls with regards to landing a job? Who is the most screwed out of that group?
3L’s are the most screwed if they're asking, because so much of what you need to do is too late by then. Listen carefully, here’s what you need to do, none of which is exciting or secret: 1) Stay sober. Drunk and stoned will not help your g.p.a. one bit. The nerd who thinks you’re an irresponsible jerk who parties too much will probably be in better shape than you at graduation. 2) Study like your life depends on it. I can not tell you how much your class rank counts and at Boyd if you place below the top 15% you don’t get ranked on your transcript (which I think is politically correct nonsense). So if you graduate in the top 16% for all a potential employer knows you graduated at the bottom of the class. 3) You need to do everything you can to summer between your 2nd and 3rd year. Job offers at graduation are much higher for this group. In general you need to work like a slave in a salt mine and be out in the legal community.
Do you still have attorneys coming to you looking to lateral, or is it mostly attorneys who have been laid off?We'd like to thank Mr. Ross for his time and frankness in responding to these questions.
Both. If you have a job, do everything you can to hold on to it. Making a lateral move without a book of business is virtually impossible right now, so after you do everything your firm wants you to do each week, spend another 10-20 hours a week marketing to potential new clients.
In your opinion, what are the top 5 firms in town (taking into account salary, quality of life, benefits, and billables, if applicable)? The bottom 5?
The Shark Pimp fears nothing and no one. He answers questions with no care for the opinion or feelings of others leaving death, blood and destruction in his wake. Except those questions. What, are you nuts? Here’s your answers – the best firms are my clients, the worst firms aren’t.
Have associates lost the ability to negotiate for salary with firms?
They never really had it to begin with. Urban myth. Remember the boiler room in the movie Glengarry, Glen Ross? Leads are for closers. Well in legal salary negotiations, negotiations are for people with book. No book of business, no negotiation. Have a nice day.
I would like to say a quick thank you to the commentators who correctly understood the remarks I posted yesterday. For those troubled by my criticism of the Shark Pimp series' grammar, I apologize for elevating form over substance. I was wrong for doing so.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, as noted by the more astute observers, much of the Shark Pimp's "advice" was worthless to what I perceive is the majority of WWL's audience. Note that I say "was." Admittedly, today's post contained some good, practical (and, as acknowledged, not-so-secret) advice about studying hard and trying to crack the top 15% of your graduating class. (More on this in a minute.)
I do find it interesting, however, that the Shark Pimp encourages students to "be out in the legal community," yet discourages lawyers ultimately interested in private practice from taking jobs in the public sector. I just can't figure this guy out.
Listen, right now, apply for and accept any job you can find in the legal field (the caveat of course being that some can be more selective than others—but they know who they are). Do not be fooled into thinking that the hiring partner at your dream firm will soon forget the current economic crisis once things pick up. (After all, chances are their profits-per-partner are down too.) Trying to gain legal experience wherever one can is much more impressive and shows more drive and initiative than working as a valet at the Wynn until Jones Vargas reinstates its summer program. In other words, real law firm recruiters will understand why you're at Legal Aid while your passion is defending corporate interests.
Now, for the 85% at Boyd who are not in the top 15%. The paragraph immediately above is more applicable to you. Perfect your resume and cover letter, practice your interview skills, and do not be afraid to apply for any and all job openings you find. You will be surprised at how many employers value things other than grades. You're likely not going to land your dream job today, but that's the end game, right? Focus on the now.
Again, best of luck, and sorry for the long comment.
—Supero Omnia
P.S. For those who asked, I am not a legal recruiter. I am an associate (faithful WWL follower, first-time (yesterday) commentator) who not so long ago took the advice I am now dispensing and landed a dream job at what I (and, candidly, many) believe is one of the best firms in town. I hope I do not come off as arrogant. I simply want to provide encouragement. Believe me, if I could do it, you can too.
Seems like you're actually offering good, sound advice to legal professionals/hopefuls...Keep up the good blog.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Boyd only start ranking top 15%?
ReplyDeleteGet your facts straight before shooting your mouth -- Boyd ranks the top third and always has.
ReplyDeleteSupero....excellent again.
ReplyDeleteListening to the Shark Pimp give advise about finding jobs and legal work in general is like asking your law professor to teach you practical legal skills you can use after graduation. Neither have any idea what in the hell they are talking about.
I really hope this is the last installment from Mr. Pimp...
Boyd ranks the top 25% on transcripts, not the top 15% or top 33%. It only ranks the top 33% pre-graduation.
ReplyDeleteSumma - top 3%
Magna - top 10%
Cum Laude - top 25%
As for Ross advice, he clearly only cares about placing partners with books of business or senior associates who couldn't make partner (of counsel). Most of his advice is off base for associates looking to make a lateral move.
I am a partner at one of the 5 largest firms in Nevada and can tell you that we ALMOST NEVER use the services of a legal recruiter, and especially with associates with 0-5 years of experience. Why pay for such services when we are already deluges with very good resumes?! As such, with all due respect to the this "pimp", I would put very little stock in his advice.
ReplyDeleteTHE SHARK PIMP SEZ:
ReplyDeleteLet's wrap up with comments on Part 3: Supero 10:33 AM, let me clarify "out in the legal community". It means organizations and events that are appropriate to your practice. if you practice construction law you should definitely join the contractors association. If you are a litigator you should attend the annual CCBA judge's mixer (tonight at 6:00 PM by the way). Go where the clients and practitioners of your practice are. Supero IS right that a public sector or non profit legal job is better than a non-legal job and if you read my original comment carefully you'll note that I didn't say don't take one, I said try not to if you can avoid it. Anon 1:48 PM, I really don't know what to say - except how many jobs have YOU found for people? Sorry if I didn't have nice "career day" things to say. Anon 2:21 PM, you're partially correct. In this market, about all I do care about is book. The Shark Pimp Iz Greedee. But I am, for example, looking for a sterling BK associate, no book needed. But most of the advice I gave in this last interview, WAS tailored for the non-book toting Associate, it's just a little grim I'm afraid. Anon 3:54 PM, I really don't dispute what you say about the use of recruiters. They really aren't much use to firms for Associate recruiting below a certain level of experience. And as you point out, especially in this market. High volume and retail firms in particular can usually just run an short ad and get all the resumes they need. But I don't see what point you're making as to my advice, which I stand by.
GOOD HUNTING TO ALL IN 2009.
POST SCRIPT FROM THE SHARK PIMP:
ReplyDeleteWE HAVE A WINNER - well, a partial winner. Anon 2:21 PM was the closest of us all on the issue of who gets ranked on Boyd Law transcripts. The top third are ranked, but not just at graduation for the purpose of Latin honors, but also on the transcript. This was confirmed for me a few minutes ago by a representative from the Boyd Career Office.
thanks for sharing.............
ReplyDelete___________________
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